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Confused on recipes, other DIY things, and sharing information

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  #1  
Old August 19th, 2012, 11:22 AM
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Default Confused on recipes, other DIY things, and sharing information

I am an obvious newbie to the hookah. Not a noob on the e-cig grounds by a long shot and have great appreciation for DIY. I've been making my own e-liquid for quite some time.

I got my first hookah a week ago, one of those pumpkins. It was ok, and I'm glad I didn't spend much on it. Since the concept of the Hookah is rather simple, I threw together a DIY out of a sugar dispenser and like it better. I'm trying to make my own tobacco now with what is available in our small town.

Here are some things that are confusing me and/or may help others with information.

I've seen some videos of people using the pharmaceutical glycerin rather than the food grade vegetable glycerin, which is scary. Are many of the DIY here still using this form of VG?

Another thing that is confusing me, is there is never mention of PG (propylene glycol) Which is used for better, thicker smoke production and better throat hit. (again I am talking food grade here, and not running down to your nearest hardware store). Does no one use this?

With that said...** Note, some are sensitive to PG and must use only VG. When only using VG in an E-cig, it must be thinned in order to work. The options here are distilled water and/or a few drops of Ever Clear. Ever Clear in a VG mix also aids with a nice throat hit. Food Grade VG also helps with adding sweetness.

I've seen some recipes that call for certain extracts that we'd never use in an e-cig....which is another area of confusion for me.

The steam stones I see they're out there, but I don't see the refill of juice, unless you make your own, and where are the "real DIYers" on this one where the thread just doesn't all of a sudden stop?

Yea, I clearly have a bad case of A.D.D this morning and I'm a bit all over the place. But I wanted to shed a light on some things that could help others, yet I wonder where some of the other information is located

I've also noticed that some of the DIY threads and some of the brain storming threads get slammed and shut down do to traditionalist. Which tradition is great! I've gotten a lot out of reading about the history of the hookah and have found it very interesting. However, forums are also a great place to open the brain tank of thoughts and new ideas and things to grow on. ...just saying

Ok, ready for the slamming to begin, or to be flooded with information. Obviously I'd prefer the information, but I'm an adult and can handle whatever

Last edited by DivaB; August 19th, 2012 at 12:51 PM.
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  #2  
Old August 19th, 2012, 01:44 PM
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Default Re: Confused on recipes, other DIY things, and sharing information

I don't make my own hookah tobacco, but I have read discussions in the past where some folks use vegetable glycerine and some use medical grade glycerine. Some have said that medical glycerine is the wrong kind, and others have said that it is more pure and better to use than food grade vegetable glycerin. I know this doesn't really clear up your confusion, but thats all that I know/have seen. THIS THREAD does give pretty good istructions on turning pipe tobacco into a usable hookah tombel though.

As for steam stones, I have never tried them, but most folks on here haven't enjoyed them much. Most people will tell you to stick to tobacco if you want to enjoy your hookah smoking. Since there isn't a lot of interest in steam stones in general, there isn't a lot of interest in DIY steam stoning.

Sorry I can't help more. If you have questions like these I think it should be OK for you to ask in hookah discussion, even though the subject is mostly about DIY questions. Far more people will look at it there and you will probably get more responses faster.
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Old August 19th, 2012, 02:06 PM
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Default Re: Confused on recipes, other DIY things, and sharing information

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Originally Posted by Swells View Post
I don't make my own hookah tobacco, but I have read discussions in the past where some folks use vegetable glycerine and some use medical grade glycerine. Some have said that medical glycerine is the wrong kind, and others have said that it is more pure and better to use than food grade vegetable glycerin. I know this doesn't really clear up your confusion, but thats all that I know/have seen. THIS THREAD does give pretty good istructions on turning pipe tobacco into a usable hookah tombel though.

As for steam stones, I have never tried them, but most folks on here haven't enjoyed them much. Most people will tell you to stick to tobacco if you want to enjoy your hookah smoking. Since there isn't a lot of interest in steam stones in general, there isn't a lot of interest in DIY steam stoning.

Sorry I can't help more. If you have questions like these I think it should be OK for you to ask in hookah discussion, even though the subject is mostly about DIY questions. Far more people will look at it there and you will probably get more responses faster.
Thanks a bunch for trying and most importantly responding. I thought I had posted in the right spot....still stumbling my way around. If any MODs here could please move to the correct location, I would appreciate it.
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Old August 19th, 2012, 02:11 PM
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Default Re: Confused on recipes, other DIY things, and sharing information

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Originally Posted by DivaB View Post
Thanks a bunch for trying and most importantly responding. I thought I had posted in the right spot....still stumbling my way around. If any MODs here could please move to the correct location, I would appreciate it.
You posted in the right spot. It's just that this part of the forum doesn't get as much activity as hookah discussion, which is really for any sort of hookah related questions and far more people look at. You did nothing wrong, I was just suggesting that if you want to get as many responses as possible to your hookah questions try the hookah discussion section.
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  #5  
Old August 19th, 2012, 02:50 PM
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Default Re: Confused on recipes, other DIY things, and sharing information

Welcome to the community and I'm glad to see another person taking an interest in improving there experiences with their own hands .

We don't use PG because we aren't looking for a throat hit. Nargile is not a replacement for cigarettes, neither intended nor generally excepted as possible, and it is meant to be smooth and relaxing, not harsh.

As Swells said, we the bulk of the serious hookahpro members love tobacco. Good tobacco adds a nice(also essential to many) richness to the smoke. When you smoke a quality robust ma'ssel(not so much tobamel imo thus far) and then try smoking something more modern and consequently weak you find that, even if the flavor is enjoyable, there is something missing, that is the undertone of rich tobacco. I find that this flavor is often not very noticeable but more that you realize it's absence as such. Anywho, almost lost my point there lol. The point is that if we don't like going to a super washed modern chemical soup tobacco then we most certainly do not want to have that chem soup in rock form.

But ultimately, do what you like and like what you do, we each have a unique palette and subsequent opinions. Although I do believe that for anyone who truly loves nargile for what it is and not for what they want it to be, evolution will lead to smoking brands the likes of Nakhla, Cleopatra, Salloum, Layalina, etc.; black tobacco on the other hand is not for everyone. Now of course I don't mean that it is wrong to make new things. I simply mean that so much has been done with nargile already that, when it comes to making tobacco, if you do something truly new and different it will quite likely be for the worse. Now, on the other hand, Tangiers completely revolutionized the way nargile tobacco is made, iirc, by using oils instead of molasses, honey, or glycerin; it turned out to be a wonderful thing. Just saying, most ventures that stray too far from tradition don't end well...guru, starbuzz, cuzzins, steam stones, and so on.
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  #6  
Old August 20th, 2012, 02:46 PM
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Default Re: Confused on recipes, other DIY things, and sharing information

Quote:
Originally Posted by DivaB View Post
I am an obvious newbie to the hookah. Not a noob on the e-cig grounds by a long shot and have great appreciation for DIY. I've been making my own e-liquid for quite some time.

I got my first hookah a week ago, one of those pumpkins. It was ok, and I'm glad I didn't spend much on it. Since the concept of the Hookah is rather simple, I threw together a DIY out of a sugar dispenser and like it better. I'm trying to make my own tobacco now with what is available in our small town.

Here are some things that are confusing me and/or may help others with information.

I've seen some videos of people using the pharmaceutical glycerin rather than the food grade vegetable glycerin, which is scary. Are many of the DIY here still using this form of VG?

Another thing that is confusing me, is there is never mention of PG (propylene glycol) Which is used for better, thicker smoke production and better throat hit. (again I am talking food grade here, and not running down to your nearest hardware store). Does no one use this?

With that said...** Note, some are sensitive to PG and must use only VG. When only using VG in an E-cig, it must be thinned in order to work. The options here are distilled water and/or a few drops of Ever Clear. Ever Clear in a VG mix also aids with a nice throat hit. Food Grade VG also helps with adding sweetness.

I've seen some recipes that call for certain extracts that we'd never use in an e-cig....which is another area of confusion for me.

The steam stones I see they're out there, but I don't see the refill of juice, unless you make your own, and where are the "real DIYers" on this one where the thread just doesn't all of a sudden stop?

Yea, I clearly have a bad case of A.D.D this morning and I'm a bit all over the place. But I wanted to shed a light on some things that could help others, yet I wonder where some of the other information is located

I've also noticed that some of the DIY threads and some of the brain storming threads get slammed and shut down do to traditionalist. Which tradition is great! I've gotten a lot out of reading about the history of the hookah and have found it very interesting. However, forums are also a great place to open the brain tank of thoughts and new ideas and things to grow on. ...just saying

Ok, ready for the slamming to begin, or to be flooded with information. Obviously I'd prefer the information, but I'm an adult and can handle whatever

[FONT=Verdana]Glad to see another Ecig DIY’er and welcome to the traditionalist’s forum. I was huge into ecigs and see that many things from the ecig world could also translate into the hookah world, but honestly don’t waste your breath. Anytime anything new gets brought up it gets shut down in a heartbeat. Everything has to be traditional or you will see a bunch of this shit “I could buy a crown for $25 and it saves shisha” or ‘that’s a gimmick”. I see the potential of hookah as it is vaporizing tobacco just like an ecig. Try and argue this point and you will get told your wrong. Nobody wants shit to change around here, but the bitch about the same freaking threads that pop up every day. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana]Too your points. From the ecig world I learned to use the purest form of VG. I prefer 99.9% USP VG that you can get ordered for you at any pharmacy; some carry it and you don’t have to order it and wait; but just ask the pharmacist. I’ve always bought mine from Walgreen because that’s what’s close to my house, but in a pinch and when I can’t wait I have been guilty of using the 95% BS from Walmart. I don’t make a habit of doing that though. In the ecig world everyone bocked at the idea of using anything less than 99.9% and for some reason its stuck with me. Here people will recommend whatever you can find in the baking isle.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana]I’ve put PG in my homemade mixes and I honestly don’t know if I like it or not. PG in the ecig world was more of a medium to hold the nicotine and served also as a thinning agent. I personally don’t like a sloppy non viscous liquid with my hookah tobacco. I venture to guess that very wet brands of shisha like Fantasia use PG. I'm more of a NAK, AF guy and prefer my juice to be thick or non-existent. PG has been discussed a little bit here but again it’s not traditional, proceed with caution.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana]VG is a pretty bad sweetener in my opinion. VG has a diet soda sweet wet grassy taste to it. With hookah tobacco if you overuse it your shisha comes out like crap. In the hookah world people use honey or molasses as their sweetener. VG was used in the ecig world because honey is too sticky and would gum up your atty. Honey is a far superior sweetener IMO in the hookah world, it also doubles as a preservative.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana]As far as extracts go, the hookah can handle sticky shit. You still have to worry about it spoiling and shit, but you don’t have to fear something being sugary, sticky, thick, thin, oil based, etc... Less restrictions on the hookah flavoring. In the ecig world you avoided everything that would gum up your atty. Here it is not a concern at all.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana]Steam stones are also frowned upon. They are all herbal BS to the traditionalists. You won’t see anyone talking about making their own steam stone juice either. It’s like talking about making your own Starbuzz flavors, you’re a total noob if you do that here. I’m sure you’ve already thunk it, but use your standard ecig juice with steam stones. You can make your own steam stones that contain nicotine, which I don’t think you will currently find in the hookah market. I could be wrong, I'm just not a fan of steam stones. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana]But if you do start something new please share, I love to hear about the new innovative shit. I like tradition, but I like advancement. Good luck and welcome again.[/FONT]
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  #7  
Old August 24th, 2012, 07:48 AM
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Default Re: Confused on recipes, other DIY things, and sharing information

I thought I would throw my 2 cent chemistry knowledge in here. ALL GLYCERIN is produced from vegetable or animal fat/oil. Mostly vegetable, therefore food grade or reagent grade are both the same thing chemically speaking (C3H8O3), just different levels of purification to remove the free anions. Glycerin is not produced from petroleum.

i.e. food grade is just that, acceptable by FDA standards for human consumption.

USP [United States Pharmacopeia] is a higher grade, and suitable for human consumption (like to thicken cough syrup and make it taste a little better, also used in booze like schnapps etc...to give a better mouth feel) and cosmetics.
Reagent Grade is of highest purity and used mainly in chemical analysis preparations where any deviant anions would skew results in an experiment.

So basically, use whatever is available and suits your personal tastes or belief in safety level.

Chem class is now over....no test, hands on lab work only.

Last edited by johnpaulh; August 24th, 2012 at 07:53 AM.
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  #8  
Old August 24th, 2012, 09:14 AM
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Default Re: Confused on recipes, other DIY things, and sharing information

I've always heard to not use PG in homemade shisha. PG is used in e-cig liquid because there is no other medium (i.e. tobacco) to be used as a base medium. While it can be used, it's not like glycerin that is mainly add for it's moisture and cloud creating capabilities. PG is a thinner liquid that can easily burn off (not in a bad way) too quickly, causing much shorter sessions unlike glycerin.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 10:59 AM
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Default Re: Confused on recipes, other DIY things, and sharing information

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I've always heard to not use PG in homemade shisha. PG is used in e-cig liquid because there is no other medium (i.e. tobacco) to be used as a base medium. While it can be used, it's not like glycerin that is mainly add for it's moisture and cloud creating capabilities. PG is a thinner liquid that can easily burn off (not in a bad way) too quickly, causing much shorter sessions unlike glycerin.
Did you change your name?
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Old August 24th, 2012, 02:03 PM
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Yes I did.
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Old August 25th, 2012, 02:21 PM
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Default Re: Confused on recipes, other DIY things, and sharing information

Thanks a bunch for the shared information. Yes, I've definitely found that honey is nicer as far as sweetness for the tobacco and the reaction with the tobacco seems to work better than the VG too. For my personal use I've also decidedly like adding a little PG in the mix. I've also found that I have to let it all sit over night for a nice, full, hookah session. I've messed with some Molasses, but haven't found the "right one" yet.

So far, I have not gotten the tobacco down. I like the purchased better. But, I'm not giving up just yet. It's taking longer than it did with mixing my own e-liquid, but it just takes more work.

Last edited by DivaB; August 25th, 2012 at 02:28 PM.
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Old August 26th, 2012, 02:22 AM
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Default Re: Confused on recipes, other DIY things, and sharing information

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Originally Posted by DivaB View Post
Thanks a bunch for the shared information. Yes, I've definitely found that honey is nicer as far as sweetness for the tobacco and the reaction with the tobacco seems to work better than the VG too. For my personal use I've also decidedly like adding a little PG in the mix. I've also found that I have to let it all sit over night for a nice, full, hookah session. I've messed with some Molasses, but haven't found the "right one" yet.

So far, I have not gotten the tobacco down. I like the purchased better. But, I'm not giving up just yet. It's taking longer than it did with mixing my own e-liquid, but it just takes more work.
I've found that homemade tobacco is a lot harder to nail than homemade ecig juice. It is a lot of trial and error and not as "recipe like" as it was in the ecig world. What works for one dude doesn't neccasarily work for another person; and im not sure whats the variable or why. But you did nail the letting it sit for a day method. Fresh homemade shisha is way different if allowed to sit for a day and even better after multiple days. i like to let mine sit for a week, but i cant always wait and i test it along the way. You can taste it coming together as it sits. Keep experimenting and you'll find what fits your taste and when its done.

On the PG note, i have added PG to my homemade shisha. I am up in the air if its for me or not. On the good side; PG seems to make the shisha feel and look more like store bought shisha. On the bad side it gives the shisha a lil bit of alcohol smell; and alcohol taste for the first bit of your session.

And honey and VG. In my regular homemade mix i use honey and VG. VG can have a nasty taste IMO when overused. I've had some pretty bad batches that were VG heavy. My wet mix now consists of 70% honey and 30% VG. I like VG in my mix but not overkill. As far as molasses goes; i've never added it to any of my mixes. I've tried a corn syrup, honey, and VG mix once, and i didnt really notice any differences. Hence my one try only.

Dont give up on the homemade shit. It's very rewarding when you nail an awesome mix. Plus there is so many variables you can mix to meet your needs. My suggestion is to find a wet mix ratio you are happy with. Then experiment with different pipe tobacco's and how much you wash them. My local cigar shop has 22 different pipe tobacco blends, and i've messed around with maybe 8 or 9 of em. One blend i might wash twice and another one i might wash 5 times. I've only experimented with pipe tobaccos and find them overbearing if not washed a lil bit. So im a washing SOB. Im guessing if you use raw tobacco you dont have to wash it but i havent ventured that route yet.

Please share your experimenting and what recipes you have come up with. It's an inexact science to me and I would love to hear someone elses findings.
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Old November 13th, 2012, 11:31 PM
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Default Re: Confused on recipes, other DIY things, and sharing information

I am in agreement that traditional tobacco is ideal as far as smoke quality and flavor go but I had my first experience with steam stones a few weeks ago. It wasn't bad and the flavor was really quite smooth. The smoke although wasn't the best. I prefer a thicker smoke.
My husband and I just experimented tonight in making our own blend of steam stones. I boiled the old stones and dried them in a toaster oven for a few minutes. We used 1oz of VG and added just a few drops of candy oils for flavor. I have used honey and molasses for tobacco shisha before and it burns harsher so I added one tablespoon light corn syrup for sweetness and added 20 drops of eliquid to the bowl before smoking. So far it's great. Very smooth and has a nice thick smoke. Better than the original stones I purchased. I still prefer traditional tobacco but I will say this is a far more economical route if your looking for the nicotine buzz and an overall pleasant smoking experience. Plus the candy oils are very concentrated and come in a ton of favors. Hope this helps!
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Old November 14th, 2012, 03:44 AM
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Glad you have posted this... from my research and trial and error Here are a few things that have worked good for me... I get the mildest pipe type tobacco then I boil it drain it and boil it again 3 times left the water almost clean so I was pretty sure all the added chemicals were washed away. I then cut 3 sheets of paper towels to fit my dehydrator. I then spread the damp tobacco onto the paper towels and leave it in the dehydrator for usually 3 or 4 hrs till it dries. I didn't really measure the engredients just kinda guessed. I added molasses,honey,vanilla extract (I have heard somewhere that a non-alcohol flavoring/extract works best.), and glycerin I mixed it good and let it sit for a day or two... The last batch I made I still have some of and it smokes wonderfully.. I hope some of my info helps HAPPY SMOKING!
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Old November 14th, 2012, 09:51 AM
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Default Re: Confused on recipes, other DIY things, and sharing information

Anyone here also uses rolling tobacco? When u wash that a couple of time it should be good, i guess
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Old November 14th, 2012, 11:14 AM
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Default Re: Confused on recipes, other DIY things, and sharing information

I have some left over tobacco from rolling cigars from the past few weekends. I mixed some of that, but it doesn't look wet enough, so, I'm going to add some more molasses and VG to it. I also used orange candy oil to flavor mine, but it smells REALLY chemical, so we will have to see. I think I will add a touch more syrup tonight and smoke it this weekend. I'll let you know what happens.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 12:00 PM
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Im kinda new to making my own shisha. so with syrup u mean honey? And what u use for flavoring? Like baking stuff. or real fruit?

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Old November 14th, 2012, 02:45 PM
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Default Re: Confused on recipes, other DIY things, and sharing information

I'm by no means a pro, or even experienced at this point, but I believe the syrup is a mixture of honey, or molasses, or glycerin, or a combination of any or all of them. The flavoring, if you used any, would also go in this mixture, wether you use hard candy flavoring or some form or fruit.

Here is a really good thread:

http://www.hookahpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48356

I have read it a few times, and TAP seems to really know his stuff.
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Old November 14th, 2012, 02:57 PM
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Gonna look at flavoring now. . Thats the thing that holds me atm
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Old December 16th, 2012, 07:44 AM
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Default Re: Confused on recipes, other DIY things, and sharing information

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Gonna look at flavoring now. . Thats the thing that holds me atm

https://www.lorannoils.com/

The answer to your needs

http://www.hookahpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55913
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